"Why Choose Handmade?" with Gary Rogowski (Best of "The Secrets of Mastery," Season 1)

On this episode of "The Secrets of Mastery," we discuss the value of handmade work with master woodworker and furniture maker Gary Rogowski. The founder of the Northwest Woodworking Studio, Rogowski is also the author of many books about woodworking and creativity in the digital age.

In this interview, we discuss whether technology helps or hinders us in the creation of beautiful things. And about how he sees patience as key to mastering anything. 

Gary has his own podcast, Splinters, which you can find wherever you get your podcasts. 

The “Secrets of Mastery” is a production of Craftsmanship Magazine. It's a series of conversations with artisans and innovators about what it takes to master their craft, and what their journey has taught them.

Craftsmanship Magazine is a multimedia publication about artisans and innovators who are creating a world built to last. For more Secrets of Mastery episodes, or more stories about craft, check out Craftsmanship.net. 

Transcript

Bartolone: You're listening to The Secrets of Mastery, a series of conversations with artisans and innovators about what it takes to master their craft and what their journey has taught them. I'm Pauline Bartolone, and this is a production of Craftsmanship Magazine. On this episode, we discuss the value of handmade work with a woodworker and furniture maker of 50 years.

Rogowski: I think it's important that everyone, at some point in their lives, is working with their hands. Because I think there's a real connection to your brain.

Bartolone: Gary Rogowski of the Northwest Woodworking Studio is now based in Washington State, after a long time in Portland, Oregon. He's also the author of many books about woodworking and about creativity in the digital age.

Gary is philosophical about craft. He says handmade things can change the way you feel when you walk into a room, and handmade work allows people to create. Buyers to get in on the creative process. In this interview, we discuss whether technology helps or hinders us in the creation of beautiful things, and Gary talks about how he sees patience as key to mastering anything.

You are kind of a perfect person to talk to about this idea of mastery, which is the theme of the podcast series, secrets of Mastery. You teach Mastery through. your online courses through your school for woodworkers. You've also been doing woodworking for...

Rogowski: 50 years next year.

Bartolone: So, you know, what does it take to become a master in this trade?

Rogowski: Two things, and I couldn't have told you this 20 years ago. One is patience, and that took me forever to learn. And, and the other, and, and this was, this one was slow in coming, is forgiveness. I've had students walk out when they made a mistake. This hasn't, hasn't happened often, but one guy, he had taken three or four classes from me, week long classes during the summer.

And, uh, he made a mistake once and he just, he couldn't, he couldn't stand the thought that he had done something so stupid. Everyone does, but he couldn't, somehow, he couldn't process and he just packed up all his tools and he left, didn't say a word. He just left. And I just, um. Read a little story about Emanuel Ax, the pianist, concert pianist, and, and how nervous he gets because he's afraid of making mistakes in front of people.

But that's a part of the deal. I mean, if you're a performer, you're going to make mistakes. Yo Yo Ma says that he doesn't relax until he makes his first mistake. And no one has heard it because everyone's going, Oh, it's Yo Yo Ma. It must be that way. All right.

Bartolone: I think I read and, and something you wrote for us, you believe in the value of failure in education, uh, and then, and the importance of mistakes.

Rogowski: Yeah, it's, it's huge. It's really important. It's the only way you learn. I can tell you not to do something and you'll go, uh huh. But. Only when you make the mistake and go, Oh, I just screwed up. There are consequences, which, which sometimes are very minor. And other times are, you know, I got to remake the piece.

Well, it usually takes longer to argue with yourself than it does to remake the piece.

Bartolone: Yeah. So from patience and forgiveness to become a master. I mean, is there something tangible that you can see? Like, can you identify a handcrafted piece of wood furniture or wood sculpture that is made by a master?

Rogowski: I think so.

I think so. Um, taking care where few people would, would notice, but he would notice. And that sort of care shown through to me. I'll tell you another example. I have no idea who this was. I was in Prague. And, uh, my friend Molly and I were at a, at a concert at the municipal hall and we got there early and we're up in the, in the nosebleed section.

And I decided to walk around and look at the building, which has all these great details. And I walked down these, these stairs and around the staircase and the side of the staircase is covered up with a wooden panel, probably used for storage or something, but the wooden panel was held on. with brass screws.

Big brass screws. Slotted screws. So they're just a single slot in the screw. And all the screws were horizontal. Horizontal across the bottom. Horizontal up the side. Horizontal across the Horizontal everywhere. And I went, somebody cared. I wouldn't do it that way. I would do it vertical and then horizontal and then vertical.

And so everything was pointing in towards the middle. But somebody a hundred years ago had made this choice to align, it's called clocking the screws. And I just so appreciated this nameless person, And that kind of, Oh, attention to detail, uh, really, really shines through.

Bartolone: Well, you wrote a book called Handmade, Creative Focus in the Age of Distraction, where you kind of argue that we're in this age of the internet and digital technology and are distracted by it and that handmade work helps us be more complete human beings. Well, what did you mean by that?

Rogowski: Well, I, the building of the work helps us slow down, uh, and, and I don't know a single person who said, yeah, I've really slowed down these days. Life is so much easier. No, life is hard and fast. It's faster than ever. I find that I'm overloaded with all the stuff that the internet bombards us with.

It just wears on us. And I know for me, getting into the shop is an important antidote. It's not a cure, but it helps.

Bartolone: I mean, we're, we are increasingly using technology to help us create and kind of sustain ourselves in this world. I mean, as a craftsperson, when you're making furniture or even in your everyday life, I mean, do you have a set of principles about when technology enhances Your creativity or your ability to create and when it hinders it.

Rogowski: This is what I call to my students, the line in the shop. What is the line in the shop? You cannot cross over. And, uh, I, I would take exception to your statement that technology enhances my creativity. I find that. It can make some things easier. Um, I find that people believe that the technology will, will make a big difference.

Well, you don't do 3D design work. No, I like drawing and, uh, I like making models and I urge my, my students to make full scale models. Um, and you can do it in cardboard. You can do it in minutes. You can cut joints in it if you want, but you have this piece. Um, Sitting there and you can say, Oh, that's too big or that's too small.

Or, you know, maybe I should change the proportions, whatever that you cannot get by spinning that piece around 360 on, on fusion, whatever, uh, it's different. And. When we're talking about creating objects to live with, I think it's important to see it, touch it, you know, prototype it, all that stuff that I, I think that, uh, technology can't do.

Uh, I use, I use plenty of power tools. Don't get me wrong. Uh, but I don't, I don't do any CAD stuff and I don't do laser stuff. And I don't, yeah. That's just me. I like wood in the, in the flesh, so to speak.

Bartolone: Well, I did want to ask you more about your relationship to tools. Uh, like do you prefer to use old ones or when do you decide that it's valuable to use a new tool?

Rogowski: Well, how late is the piece? That's the answer to the question. So if it's a, uh, you know, if it's a project, it's probably behind schedule. Uh, Christmas project, it's probably the day before. So there are choices that always have to be made. I talk about this in one of my books about joinery, but it's just the same with tooling.

And that is, what do you know how to do? What do you have in your shop? How fast do you need to get things done? And what effect will it have on the integrity of the piece? If it doesn't have any effect, well, then you can use any number of, of choices, whether they're power based or hand tool based. Um, but you know, there are some that are clearly not as long lasting as others.

And so There are certain joints that I use that I, that I think are better than others. But the tooling itself, it just depends on how fast do I need to get things done. So I, I, I did a, I did a three drawer case and um, it's about 12 inches deep and the purpose of the case was to make these drawers. So I, I cut the dovetail joints with a router.

I had no problem doing that. And then I left them shaped and, and they're all pillowed and they look great, but they're not hand cut, uh, which to some people is unthinkable and to others is like, well, that's joined for the job. Uh, I got it done in an hour instead of two days.

Bartolone: So it's all about what your deadline is in terms of what tools you use.

Rogowski: Well, it's about the intention of the piece and the intention was not to have hand cut dovetails and have you looking at those. I wanted you looking at the drawer handles. And I wanted you opening the drawers. That was, that was the focus. I talk to, uh, talk about this with my students. First of all. The idea of purpose or function and the difference between that and intention.

And they're very different. I can show you a hundred different chairs and no two of them will look alike, but they all have the same purpose. Uh, if you read Henry Petrosky, form follows failure. Every design is a mishmash of previous designs that didn't work. And, and then we go, Oh, okay, that didn't work.

So let's try this. Um, so Petrosky wrote a book on bridge design and he was a civil engineer and every 30 years a bridge fails and the bridge designers go, Whoa, we didn't know that could happen. Like the Tacoma Narrows Bridge, right? A 30 mile an hour wind started that thing to oscillate. And then it collided, a 30 mile an hour wind, no, nobody saw that coming.

They were thinking, Oh, it'd have to be, you know, a hundred mile an hour wind to bring this bridge down. 30 mile an hour wind caused it to oscillate and fail. And then there was that bridge in LA, what is it now? Pre COVID probably five, six years ago. And they put it up and the very first day it failed.

Well, you've got all these computer models, you've got all this stuff. So there's a [00:12:00] lot of, of stuff that's learned and sometimes at the cost of lives, but Learned from failure and our forms start to take in that information and, and use that. Um, but the function of a piece can be very simple, but the shape of it can, is about the intention of the designer.

What does that designer want you to feel when you see that piece? And it's very different. You know, you walk into a motel six, I don't care if they leave the lights on, The furniture there has a certain look to it. I was talking with my friend and he was on the road a lot. And he said, every time I'd go into the Marriott or whatever hotel chain he was going into, he could, he knew he was going to see this type of furniture, this type of art, you know, everything was the same and that's a very different intention than walking into Versailles.

Let's say. I don't live in Versailles, but you know, I've never seen Versailles, but that kind of opulence has a very different purpose than, than Motel 6 furniture.

Bartolone: I wanted to ask you about the value of handmade furniture. a little bit more. I mean, you've read a book about it. Our whole magazine is about handmade craftsmanship.

When you talk to a consumer, like a client, how do you talk to them about the value added of a handmade piece of furniture when there's, you know, a whole marketplace of manufactured furniture that they can get much more cheaply?

Rogowski: Well, it's A matter of how someone wants to feel when they walk into a room.

Handmade furniture or handmade crafts in general are still within the reach of certain levels of society. Not all that's, that's for sure. But, you know, there's something about knowing that someone cared. When they were building this piece, that makes a difference, um, and, and, and you should be able to see it and feel it.

And that, I hope, inspires people to think about the choices they make throughout the rest of their lives. I mean, I, you know, I go to big box stores, don't get me wrong, you know, but there are times when I say, I need to do something for myself, uh, that's a little out of the ordinary. So I'm going to buy a piece of pottery, or I'm going to buy a painting, or Socks, good socks, not these cheap socks you, you keep putting on my feet, good socks.

So it makes a difference. And handmade stuff is, um, not just about, uh, the product, it's about a process as well. And I try and involve, involve the client in a whole series of steps. So today was the first, really the second part of a, of a design process. So I talked with the client and she and I were just kind of bantering back and forth about what she was looking for.

And then I did sketches and sent some images of previous work I had done. And there were a dozen images. And she'll look at those and send them back and say, yeah, these really suck. Or, or, this one's really good. I really like this idea. Let's work, let's, let's hone in on this, but let's take some elements of these other things because I like those things.

So It's fun. It's a, it's a fun thing to engage in with, with, with another person. To create something for you. For yourself

Bartolone: As a, as a woodworker, a craftsperson, a laborer, what value does it bring to you to do things by hand? That could be done by machine, like you were talking about joints that, you know, you can use a tool to make a joint and that took an hour. Or you can do it by hand and it may take two days. Does it give you joy or some other sense of satisfaction when you do things by hand?

Rogowski: It just depends on what I want to do in the shop that day. And sometimes I'll just go in and I do this one exercise called a five minute dovetail where I cut a dovetail joint by hand.

It doesn't take me five minutes. It takes me. And it's just a way of connecting with the bench and slowing down and narrowing my focus from the world to a very small place on the bench. So, But you know, handmade is a, is an interesting title, um, because even using machines, I, I feel that my, that my work is handmade.

It's not always done the slowest, slowest way possible. Because, you know, again, you, you are, as a crafts person, you have, there's this, A strange realization that occurs a few years after you start and teach yourself and you've got some chops and you learn stuff is, and the realization is, oh hell, there's an economy out there.

And so unless you're already rich when you started or have a spouse that is, and you've got a good job, you've got it. Get in line with the economy. How are you going to, how are you going to support yourself and still do this craft, not just on the weekends, but on a day to day basis, and that causes some compromises and people draw different lines in the shop.

That's all I can say about it.

Bartolone: I wanted to talk to you about, uh, something you said about how woodworkers are obsessed with precision. But you obviously, you talk a lot about creativity and it being, you know, fundamental to people's happiness, um, or existence, really. Um, you know, I think of precision and creativity as kind of being at odds with each other, like if I'm worried about being precise, I, it limits my ability to be creative.

I mean, do you think they're compatible or, how do you reconcile the two?

Rogowski: I think that there's a need for a creative person to have a fierce intelligence about what they're doing. And that means sometimes being precise and sometimes being. Um, incredibly sloppy and seeing where that, where that takes you.

But the discipline is, is very precise. The discipline has to be there in order to be creative. It's not something that you can just, Oh, you know, I feel like being creative today. Where's my light switch? Boom. Now I'm creative. It doesn't work like that. It does not work like that, but, um, having that discipline to do the work a little bit each day or a couple of days a week or in the mornings or whenever your time is and being selfish about it, um, requires some precision, I guess.

Bartolone: Well, thank you so much, Gary Rogowski. It was a pleasure talking with you.

Rogowski: Thanks so much for having me, Pauline. I appreciate it.

Bartolone: That was Gary Rogowski, founder of the Northwest Woodworking Studio, now in Washington State. Gary has his own podcast, Splinters, which you can find wherever you get your podcasts. Music in this series is from Blue Dot Sessions. For more Secrets of Mastery episodes or more stories about craft, check out Craftsmanship. net. That's craftsmanship. net. You can find us on Substack, too. Thanks for listening.