Humility, Hustle, and Building a Craft Business, w/ Rebecca van Bergen

It’s one thing to make, it’s another thing to sell. 

On this edition of “The Secrets of Mastery,” a production of Craftsmanship Magazine, we talk with Rebecca van Bergen, founder and executive director of NEST, about what craftspeople need to have thriving businesses.

NEST helps craft businesses around the world grow by providing training, resources and sales opportunities.

The international organization has worked with 2000 artisans and businesses in more than 100 countries, from quilters in Alabama to candle makers in Taiwan. 

Because of Nest’s work, potters, jewelers and textile workers sell their wares through major brands such as MadeWell and Anthropologie.

“One of the questions I’m often asked is whether or not with robotics and AI whether the death of craftsmanship is upon us,” van Buren tells Craftsmanship Magazine. “We’ve seen the opposite. And the more we swing in that direction, the more the human psyche craves something else.” 

Van Bergen brings her training as a social worker to help craft businesses grow. Her own grandmothers were textile workers. I asked her about what craftspeople need — and offer — in an increasingly manufactured world, and about the role both humility and hustle play in business. 

The “Secrets of Mastery” podcast series is a production of Craftsmanship Magazine. It's a series of conversations with artisans and innovators about what it takes to master their craft, and what their journey has taught them.

Craftsmanship Magazine is a multimedia publication about artisans and innovators who are creating a world built to last. For more Secrets of Mastery episodes, or more stories about craft, check out Craftsmanship.net. 

Music in this series is from Blue Dot Sessions. Pauline Bartolone is Senior Audio Editor for Craftsmanship.net. Managing Editor for the magazine is Laurie Weed, and Todd Oppenheimer is the founding editor and executive director. 

LINKS: 

NEST: https://www.buildanest.org/

Craftsmanship Magazine's podcast page: https://craftsmanship.net/podcasts/

Sign up for Craftsmanship Magazine on Substack: https://craftsmanship.substack.com/

Transcript

(This is a computer-generated transcript. While it has been lightly edited, there may be some errors.)

[MUSIC]

Pauline Bartolone: This is the Secrets of Mastery, a series of conversations with artisans about what it takes to master their craft and what their journey has taught them. I am Pauline, and this is a production of Craftsmanship Magazine. A multimedia publication about artisans and innovators who are creating a world built to last.

On this edition, it’s one thing to make, it’s another thing to sell. We talk with Rebecca van Bergen about what craftspeople need to have thriving businesses. Van Bergen is founder and director of NEST, which props up craftspeople around the world by providing training, resources and business opportunities. The international organization has worked with 2000 artisans and businesses in more than 100 countries, from quilters in Alabama to candle makers in Taiwan. Because of Nest’s work, potters, jewelers and textile workers sell their wares through major brands such as Madewell and Anthropologie.

Van Bergen: One of the questions I’m often asked is whether or not with robotics and AI whether the death of craftsmanship is upon us,  And i think we’ve seen the opposite. And the more we swing in that direction, the more the human psyche craves something else. 

Pauline Bartolone: Van Bergen’s training as a social worker is the foundation of her work to help craft business grow. Her own grandmothers were textile workers. I asked her about what craftspeople need, and offer in an increasingly manufactured world, about the role both humility and hustle play in business. Here now is the interview with Rebecca van Bergen of NEST… with first her answer about why she’s passionate about handcraft. 

Rebecca van Bergen: I mean, there's so many things I could talk for a really long time. I'm sure you could too, about this sector. One is that women do it for, for centuries.

Women have been, the men do it too, but, but it is a primary driver of economic independence for women, specifically women can do it from home. Um, which means that they can have other caregiving responsibilities. They can work in countries where gender discrimination is still strong. And so I think, um, it is a really important income opportunity for women around the world.

I. That's one. The second is its relationship to culture. I think it really is, um, so often, um, a, a storytelling mechanism, a a way of defining communities, a way of defining family lines and generational lines. And, um, and so that makes it. Kind of deeply meaningful. I also really love that it's, um, you can take it with you.

So we've been doing a lot of partnerships and working with refugee communities in the US and globally. Um, and craft is something you always have no matter where you are. And in a time of kind of record displacement that. That feels really important. Um, and then the last one I'll just share is that, um, we're really interested at Nest about its connection to mindfulness and healing.

And that, um, not only is it income generating, but it often, um, the repetitive motion of most crafts, um, triggers the same brain chemistry as meditation. And so not only can it provide income, but it actually also has these healing properties for the people practicing. 

Pauline Bartolone: And what have you found in terms of what you think artisans need in terms of.

Growing their business and what do they need to be successful? 

Rebecca van Bergen: It actually turns out most artists and businesses have really similar needs. So it, um, like regardless of where you're, you're operating, um, and that's that most often they come with like the creative and the art is at the, the forefront and they're learning the business pieces on the go. They're also almost always, we have a lot of solopreneurs and then we have a lot of very micro businesses. And so they're wearing many, many, many hats at all times. And so, um, one of the things we've really seen, um, is limited time to learn the skills. You don't, you don't know, and like a limited ability to bring in experts to help you.

And so a lot of what we focus on is how to partner them with pro bono consultants to really help kind of boost, you know, what they need in, in ways that are like very specific. 

Pauline Bartolone: Can you share a story or two about an artisan that you worked with and. How'd that help them? 

Rebecca van Bergen: I mean, there's so many, um, but I can share, share a few.

One is that we have a really awesome partnership with the company Etsy, and we, um, worked together on a collaborative program that's called Uplift Makers. And the goal of the program was to identify communities, um, that weren't yet accessing e-commerce at all. And so had incredible talent but weren't yet selling online.

We would identify communities. And then, um, Etsy philanthropically supported Nest to provide educational workshops on e-commerce. So it's one thing to like have them know, but how do you actually build your shop? How do you do customer service? How do you handle shipping and logistics? How do you price your good?

Like all of that. Professional photography so that the goods really sell. Um, and so we, um, provided kind of robust educational, um, support as they built their shops. And Etsy ended up, uh, generously committed to waiving the fees for the first several months that, that the community is on, on the platform.

And so we've run several amazing cohorts. We started, um, in a tiny town in Alabama called GS Bend, where they make, um, it's a community of incredible black quilters, um, who have been making. Quilts for, um, centuries and, and it's been passed down and they, you know, have they quilt at the Met in like in Incre, many art galleries.

There's a postage stamp for them, and yet they weren't selling e-commerce, which was, is shocking. Um, and so we helped them build, um, Etsy shops for the first time. Um, and we are, they're hovering near a million dollars in sales, um, from the Etsy platform, um, of new quilts, which is incredible. Okay, 

Pauline Bartolone: so as I mentioned, we have this series called The Secrets of Mastery, and this month we're talking about how artisans can make their businesses successful.

And they're obviously individual things that PE artisans can do, and then there are structural supports that help make craft businesses survive. So I wanted to ask you about both, actually. I'm wondering if you could comment on an individual level based on your work with artisans. What makes a, a crafts business promising.

Rebecca van Bergen: Like, I definitely don't have a secret sauce, but I can share some things we've seen, um, which is that I think there does have to be an interest in making it a business and not a hobby or just something that brings you deep fulfillment. Um. When, when there's a strong resistance to like sales and then that can be a challenge, um, to, to overcome if you wanna grow.

Um, so I'd say that like a, a desire and an interest for it to be an actual business I think is important. Um, so that's kind of one on an individual level. I think something that I think, um, we've seen successful makers or artisans lean into is diversification. So making sure that you're selling in many different ways.

We pivoted and did a lot of just straight up relief during COVI because so many makers still sell at. In-person markets as their primary way of driving revenue for their business. And so, you know, really push e-commerce, make sure you're selling in-person and online and maybe via social media and like now kind of diversification is just really important to how you're reaching people.

We do a lot of partnerships where we're encouraging people to do, um, partnerships with brands, be willing to collaborate, do design, you know, design, licensing, like think about ways that you education, teach craft to teach like hold, hold workshops. Um, and so we really. Push and encourage makers to think about ways, um, that they can stay within their craft and what they're passionate about, but find ways to kind of build both kind of business recognition, but also build revenue in ways.

Um, make sure they're reaching people in, in many, many different ways. So. We've spoken to a 

Pauline Bartolone: lot of artisans for this series. I wanna get your thoughts on some of the things we've heard in terms of what makes businesses thrive. And we spoke to one, uh, glass artist, uh, last week who started out really small in Santa Cruz, and now she runs Annie Glass.

Which has her tableware and Neiman Marcus and Las Vegas hotels, and she says that one of the key characteristics of success is adaptability. What do you think she means by that? Uh, by needing to be adaptable. 

Rebecca van Bergen: Yeah. I think that's actually maybe a more articulate, eloquent way of saying what I was saying about kind of diversification, that I think it's really flexibility.

Being willing to kind of move with the times and opportunities, I think is, is super, super important for any micro or small business, but also this sector. You know, being willing to pivot away from in-person markets, being willing to pivot back now that everyone no longer wants to be online and they wanna be in person again, like to succeed.

You have to know what your customer is feeling and move 

Pauline Bartolone: with them. Yeah. And she also says that one important lesson she's learned is that it's important to hire up. To work with people who know more than you, and that's hard for some crass people to do. 

Rebecca van Bergen: Yeah. I think it also means like hiring, we often hear like you need skills that are so different from the skills you have as a maker or an artist.

And so, you know, like we often hear like it's hiring up, but it's also just hiring parallel. Very different. Like you need an accountant, you need like, you know, people in a really different field to help you. And so. So I think she's right in terms of up, I think it's also maybe just like across sectors in ways that like can make it challenging to find the right supports is, is definitely something we see.

Pauline Bartolone: Is there something that, you know, you've been doing this for a while now, since 2006, working with small crass people around the world. What is the most complicated or most difficult part of trying to prop up their businesses? I 

Rebecca van Bergen: think like the lack of the needing to prove that the sector is valuable is, has been a major stumbling block that I think it takes a lot of.

Time and effort to bring funders and partners along and really to really like, understand and want to invest value. And it's been interesting that like the retail landscape, you know, when I founded Nest 18 years ago, Etsy was founded six months before Nest. So if you think back to that time, it's kind of crazy because.

Like now it's like, you know, who hasn't heard of Betsy, who hasn't heard of handmade, who hasn't heard of Artisan? Like those are words that are so commonly thrown about the consumer landscape. 18 years ago they were not. Um, and so artisan just meant like, you know, something you'd pick up like a, like a knickknack you'd pick up while you traveled and maybe like a fair trade store, like 10,000 villages, but you wouldn't expect to find handmade goods at Target 18 years ago.

Um, and so there's been such a, like a massive and very swift. You know, in the scheme of things, movement for made local handmade artists and all these things, um, that has been really revolutionary, honestly. But it's been fast. So for like retail to see the value of me investing in it, but some like philanthropy and investment and all of that lagged because it, it just has been fast.

And so how do you like. Write that. Like how do you write the fact that major retailers wanna work with artisans, but there hasn't been any investment to make those artisans ready, um, or scalable. And so how do you kind of like. It feels sort of like the sector's playing catch up almost. 

Pauline Bartolone: Yeah, yeah, definitely.

I wanted to share something else that actually a compost maker told us. He sends people compost around the US they buy, and he was just like, you have to be really humble to do this type of work. And we hear that a lot from artisans that, uh, it takes patience to be a craft person. There's a lot of trial and error.

It's, it seems like. The humility component and, and the ability to have patience comes into play when you're actually making the work. But in terms of becoming a successful business person, I'm wondering if you think that that is an essential component. 

Rebecca van Bergen: I think you just sort of like hit the conundrum on the head, you know, which is that like makers and artists are expected to be all of those things.

All at the same time. And it like, is that even a realistic expectation to put on someone? I don't know. Um, because I agree with you. Like the, the making of craft requires precision, it creativity, time, time to be creative, time to innovate, all of these things. And then selling is like a very different skill set and hustling and confidence and, you know, a whole different.

A whole, just a whole different thing. And so solo printers have it really, really hard where they need to be both of those things at the same time. And how do you do that? And so I think this is where we really hope that by investing in their business, they can eventually compliment their team and not be a solopreneur, but maybe have somebody else who can help them on the sales side.

Um, that, that is more passionate about some of those things. Um, that said. Even if you're a hustler, I think humility is the name of the game for everything. That's one of our core values. As an organization. We should always be learning and listening and yeah, I think. There's almost no context where that's not important.

So even if you have the sales mindset, I would, I think you're, you're most accessible if you, if you go into it humbly. Okay. Thank you so much, Rebecca. I really appreciate it. 

Pauline Bartolone: Rebecca van Bergen is founder and executive director of NEST, which supports independent artisans all over the world. 

NEST helped the United Nations launch a standard for ethical handcraft, a seal now used by brands sold in Target and Pottery Barn. 

And that’s it for this episode of The Secrets of Mastery. Music in this series is by Blue Dot Sessions. 

For more stories about how artisans are making their businesses work, check out our substack archive. You’ll find a story about how a glass artisan in Santa Cruz built up her tableware business and is now in the smithsonian. 

And, if you haven’t already subscribe to The Secrets of Mastery podcast series at craftsmanship.net. That’s craftsmanship.net. You’ll find plenty of other stories there, too. Thanks for listening.